Sunday, 19 June 2011

Learning from Islamic history

An islamic apologist implored me (@plasma_engineer) on Twitter today to "read history and current events for yourself".

Now I was tempted (no doubt by my alleged misconceptions about islam) to assume that this critic was a man.  But of course she might just as easily be a woman because we are fortunate enough to live in a free country where social media is available to all - yes even to women!  Of course if we lived in a truly Islamic world (or in a country like Saudi Arabia) my initial thoughts would have been certain to be true.  Or is my interpretation of current events so wrong on that topic?

Turning to the history of the religion of peace instead, I cast my mind to the Battle of Poitiers (also known as The Battle of Tours) in 732.  This was possibly the turning point of the first islamic invasion of Europe, where the christian Franks overturned the supremacy of the Umayyad Caliphate.  Had the battle been lost, some say that it is almost inevitable that islam would have overrun Europe by the end of that century.

It was several hundred years before islam seriously threatened Europe again.  This time the significant event was the Siege of Vienna which ended on 11th September 1683.  Notice that date.  Some believe that the date of 11th September has been an open wound in islam since this ignominious event and that bin Laden choose to strike the Twin Towers on the same date in an act of retribution.

Are we now witnessing the third islamic invasion of Europe?  This time it is not a military invasion, but one that is much more subtle and pernicious.  This time we are not allowed to resist it for fear of being politically incorrect and intolerant.  If we are not careful we will leave it too late and medieval sharia law will affect us all.

That brings me back to current affairs.  Did you know that it is estimated that 2000 (yes two thousand) British girls were subjected to genital mutilation last year?  2000 maimed for life because they had the misfortune to be born to muslim parents who took a particularly extreme view of their religion. 2000 who had no choice about the matter even though they live in a free country where they have an absolute right not to be mutilated.  This is a criminal offence in Britain, punishable by up to 14 years in prison.  Not a single case has been brought to trial for fear of inflamming islamic opinion.

So don't lecture me about history or current affairs.  Both of those should provoke moral outrage in any civilised person and I fail to see how anyone can argue against that.

I expect my islamic critic will claim that I am deliberately misrepresenting the situation and will accuse me of being deliberately inflammatory but I assure you that my intention is more to remind people of the risks of accommodating 'creeping islam'.  Already people in free countries (notably Netherlands) have been murdered for using their right to free speech to criticise islam.  Others live with the constant threat of murder.  The courageous  Ayaan Hirsi Ali, author of the book Infidel and elected member of parliament in Netherlands is one of them.

Religion of peace?  I think not.

Small note: the term 'islamophobia' is often misused especially by islamic apologists who love to claim their non-existent 'right to take offence'.  Islamophobia is not about offending islam.  It is about the perfectly reasonable fear that we should all have of the religion of peace.  Am I islamophobic?  In the sense described here, yes definitely!


Anonymous said...

Hello plasma_engineer

Interesting outline about the perfectly reasonable fear. But fear leads also to completely forget the real danger!

islam define it self as christianity 2.0
christianity is the religion that built islam, half of the coran is talking about jesus, david, abraham, moses, isaac, jacob, josef, adam, eve ...

as an atheist should'nt you describe them both as dangerous? (inquisition, same references...)

fear of islam has given a new virginity to christianity, as an atheist and as an engineer don't you notice that both religions are getting momentum one from another !

religions are an emergence phenomenon from human society (like the intelligence of an ant colony) And it s a very strong phenomenon.

But religions fears declining. that s why in my opinion they love play pendulum oscillation in order to get back to the front of the scene.

by talking about one without the other, you are helping them both to regenerate. That s the real danger.

and by talking about one without the other you are helping the pundulum gain momentum

I'm actually agnostic former muslim living in a moderate moderate muslim country. i know islam from the inside and i can assure you it s much more efficient than christianity in mass communication. they ve done a good job.

I am afraid (for humanity) about christianity 3.0 version!

Thank you

Anonymous said...

Excuse my english, its my third langage.

Plasma Engineer said...

Thanks for the comment gingembre30. There is no need to apologise for your English. It is good and perfectly clear.

I think you have made some very good points here.

If it makes you feel any better, it is only in recent weeks that I have been concentrating more on Islam, although I think in a way that my posts are pretty clearly unsupportive of all three 'peoples of the book'.

I was told something similar by a christian friend a couple of months ago. I posted something about Christian Terrorists all around us and she was very upset with me. I will find the post in question and add a link in a minute.

I appreciate your comments and I hope you will comment again in future. Thanks.

Plasma Engineer said...

Anonymous said...

During 500 years (half a millenium) and in the name of god and the only true Christian religion, an institutionalized torture and mass terror has transcended Europe. (Inquisition)
So what could you expect from Christianity 2.0 (Islam)

Of course I am just pushing the argument to the extent, but you don’t seem as sharp toward Christianity as toward islam! And that nurtures Christian extremists! And! push muslims to act as a bloc!

Thank you,

PS:Actually I’m more enthusiast for a debate on gravitational law anomalies! May be some day

Anonymous said...

Oh! i forgot something!
The most amazing thing is that Muslims and Cristians both are waiting for the return/resurection of Jesus!!!

Plasma Engineer said...

You have a good point. I suppose protestantism and the enlightenment were the main reasons for the defeat of the Inquisition, and I suppose that is why Richard Dawkins has described the Roman Catholic Church as 'possibly the greatest force for evil in the world'.

I think christians might take some offence at my suggestion that Jesus was a myth. I spent a whole weekend on the subject about a month ago.

I don't think I need to push muslims to act as a block. I think it is a requirement of Islam that they do that. The only hope is that the Suni and Shia act like Catholic and Protestant. They seem to have started.

Tell me about gravity. I'm fascinated by the idea of a discussion about that too.

Hilary Burrage said...

A couple of observations if I may:
[1] Your figure of at risk girls in the UK is probably inaccurate by a factor of ten or so: (The real numbers may be 20K+ p.a.) and

[2] It does need to be said very clearly that there are many Muslims who, just like most of the rest of us, either simply don't even know about FGM, or are horrified by it.

It is probably more helpful to see FGM as a 'tribal' or cultural thing if we are to be successful in getting it stopped.

More here if you're interested: and an e-petition whihc people can support to the same end here:

Thanks, Hilary

Plasma Engineer said...

@Hilary Burrage

Thanks for the link to your blog (which I will follow) and the petition which I have signed and shared on Facebook.

I'll write a new post about it this week too, and include your links.

Plasma Engineer said...

p.s. regarding the accuracy of my figure of 2000, I can't quite convince myself that the study that you linked says that. Yes there are 20K girls at risk, but surely not necessarily within the next year.

I might have missed something - but whether 2K or 20K - it's time the government took action against the perpetrators.